We Need a Better Looking Forum

Started by SoS, July 06, 2011, 11:33:01 PM

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SoS

July 06, 2011, 11:33:01 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Shmax,

So Engledogg and I have been talking about this for months and like the title says we need a better looking message board. I've talked to a few friends who are collectors (only one actually collects Transformers, the others collect other stuff like Star Wars, Marvel Universe and LEGO...but that's besides the point) that get put off by the site or don't hang around the boards because they are "outdated" and "visually straining" (their words not mine). I honestly agree, the skin we have now just doesn't present itself well. It's probably why the forums are usually dead around here.

I had my own message board back in 2004 or 2005 so I've played around with Forumer & IPB forums, heck I think Forumer uses the same setup and templates as the ones we are using now. Change the style/board template to AeroBlack or something and I bet the overall board style/look will be much better and make it easier to navigate through the forums.

It's almost 3 a.m. so I can't articulate my thoughts and ideas in more detail than that. I just wanted to get a conversation started at least. I have some other ideas for the board, but I'll mention them if there's an interest in making changes.


--SoS

shmax

#1
July 07, 2011, 12:23:50 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Would you believe this is the first I've heard of it? True, we're just using the stock forum style that comes with phpbb forum (arguably the most popular and feature-heavy php-based forum there is) , but I don't know if I'm ready to believe that people are giving our forums the cold shoulder because of aesthetic concerns. I can tell you that there are plenty of forums out there that have far worse visuals and only a small subset of the functionality we do, yet still see heavy use (ever been to 4chan?).

I don't know why people don't use our forums. If I had to venture a guess, I'd wager that at this point our user base consists mostly of people that have learned about shmax.com from the signatures in use on other Transformer forums (I believe that's how 95% of our current user base--including Engledogg--learned of us). These people already have a favorite forum. The time will come when we're ready for a larger--and more diverse--user base, but for now I don't really make a lot of noise encouraging new visitors outside of the locals, because the site still needs more work, more shoring up. I still consider the site to be in beta, and the 1600 or so users we now have to be testers.

As you know, I've always got 3 or 4 major projects in progress. I've been quiet lately because I'm knee-deep in one of them now (a complete rewrite of all of the javascript code in use on shmax.com, which is preparatory work for the photo-tagging feature also in progress). After that, I intend to finish the variant system I started, then it's back to the long-promised new appraisal system, and this is all on the road to finishing "shmax 2.0", which will give us a more robust "group" system for parts, and the even-longer-promised gestalt system. And all of these huge projects are themselves only the underpinnings of a greater mega-project that has been in the works for nearly 5 years, which is the expansion of shmax.com to encompass other toy lines.

Meanwhile, I've got people telling me I need to get involved in Facebook, Twitter, mobile, and everything else. I fully realize that these things would expand our user base (and probably light up our forums), but again, we're not ready for it (our poor server can't handle it, and the site is losing money as-is). At the same time, I am interested in the idea of letting users sign in with any of these accounts (see flickr.com). And when I start thinking about that, I start thinking about overhauling things like our member management systems, and I think about how shaky our current "news" content management is (for the moment I hack into forum subsystems), and I start fantasizing about just tossing out the forums altogether and building something up from scratch.

But I'm only one nerd (well, let's not forget Spaceharfang), and all this stuff takes time. So I'll tell you what I'll do. Once I finish my current project, I'll put all the other huge stuff on hold for a bit, and if nothing else, I'll upgrade to the newest version of phpbb forums (which I've been meaning to do anyway, in the hope of fixing some of the log-in issues people report). In the meantime, you and Ed can shop around for a skin you like, and we can try it out. To be clear, you'll have to pick one designed specifically to work with phpbbforum3. The other ones you mentioned aren't compatible. If you're adventurous and want to try your hand at developing a new skin from scratch, I can support that as well.

Wajo357

#2
July 07, 2011, 02:55:12 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
sounds good... thanks for your great work as usual! My only suggestion, if possible, is to have the 'wiki' post like slickdeals has. This would really give a great advantage over other TF forums. Threads that constantly change information (like a deals thread) would make the wiki post VERY useful.
<a href="http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853</a>

engledogg

#3
July 07, 2011, 08:26:08 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
I don't believe the fact that the board might not be as aesthetically pleasing as it could be is the reason we don't have a gazillion forum users...like shmax mentioned, I think it's just because most Transformers fans/users already have their favorite forum and hang out there most of the time.

With that said, I'm not opposed to sprucing things up, in terms of the forum's appearance.  Once we're on a new, more powerful server and expand to other toylines (perhaps those toylines whose fans don't really have dedicated message boards), this might be a safe haven for them to post.

Transformers fans are spoiled in that their interests are shared by many other people, hence the multitude of different TF-dedicated forums/message boards out there.  With any of the mega-toylines, you'll see a board(s) devoted to that toyline (MOTU, G.I.Joe, etc.).  But where do the fans of the relatively-obscure Bionic Six toyline go to post?  Nowhere, that's where.  :)

Again, in the future, once we hit that expansion to other toylines, it might be nice have a slick-looking forum.  But for now, with the low forum traffic, I can see why it's not all that essential to devote a lot of time to it.

MIKE
engledogg
Dumba$$ that used to buy everything...not so much anymore.

SoS

#4
July 07, 2011, 08:35:12 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "shmax"
Would you believe this is the first I've heard of it? True, we're just using the stock forum style that comes with phpbb forum (arguably the most popular and feature-heavy php-based forum there is) , but I don't know if I'm ready to believe that people are giving our forums the cold shoulder because of aesthetic concerns. I can tell you that there are plenty of forums out there that have far worse visuals and only a small subset of the functionality we do, yet still see heavy use (ever been to 4chan?).
Valid point. Those remarks were from just one or two "regular joes" who are probably used to a different skin/style and look at the default as outdated. I only mentioned it as a possibility.

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I don't know why people don't use our forums. If I had to venture a guess, I'd wager that at this point our user base consists mostly of people that have learned about shmax.com from the signatures in use on other Transformer forums (I believe that's how 95% of our current user base--including Engledogg--learned of us). These people already have a favorite forum. The time will come when we're ready for a larger--and more diverse--user base, but for now I don't really make a lot of noise encouraging new visitors outside of the locals, because the site still needs more work, more shoring up. I still consider the site to be in beta, and the 1600 or so users we now have to be testers.
Agreed, we all have are favorite "go to forum". I'm a member at probably all the "major" TF forums, but the only one I regularly post is the Allspark. Now, I can't speak for anyone else but for me the fact that I have a dedicated section where I can go and talk about anything ranging from Politics, Video Games, Comics, TV shows, Anime or Art is a plus for me. Everyone here is not just a Transformers fan, so having something else to anchor them in can probably stimulate forum use. Some toylines/fanbases don't have a decent forum so they settle with what they get. It's just an opinion so don't take it as gospel. :)

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As you know, I've always got 3 or 4 major projects in progress. I've been quiet lately because I'm knee-deep in one of them now (a complete rewrite of all of the javascript code in use on shmax.com, which is preparatory work for the photo-tagging feature also in progress). After that, I intend to finish the variant system I started, then it's back to the long-promised new appraisal system, and this is all on the road to finishing "shmax 2.0", which will give us a more robust "group" system for parts, and the even-longer-promised gestalt system. And all of these huge projects are themselves only the underpinnings of a greater mega-project that has been in the works for nearly 5 years, which is the expansion of shmax.com to encompass other toy lines.
That I do know. I was hesitant to say this in my original post, but why not let Engledogg and I tackle the forums? Give us (or me, not sure if he has access to this) to change the skin/style and let us play around with the arrangement of forum sections. Doesn't hurt to try it out, you can always change it back.

Quote
Meanwhile, I've got people telling me I need to get involved in Facebook, Twitter, mobile, and everything else. I fully realize that these things would expand our user base (and probably light up our forums), but again, we're not ready for it (our poor server can't handle it, and the site is losing money as-is). At the same time, I am interested in the idea of letting users sign in with any of these accounts (see flickr.com). And when I start thinking about that, I start thinking about overhauling things like our member management systems, and I think about how shaky our current "news" content management is (for the moment I hack into forum subsystems), and I start fantasizing about just tossing out the forums altogether and building something up from scratch.
Facebook and Twitter are easy, all we have to do is just sign up and advertise ourselves. Mention when there are new gallery updates on a figure or whatever. The news content can use some help, there's no way we can compete with other Transformer sites for news. All we can do is start reporting the news more often to get the rhythm going.

Quote
But I'm only one nerd (well, let's not forget Spaceharfang), and all this stuff takes time. So I'll tell you what I'll do. Once I finish my current project, I'll put all the other huge stuff on hold for a bit, and if nothing else, I'll upgrade to the newest version of phpbb forums (which I've been meaning to do anyway, in the hope of fixing some of the log-in issues people report). In the meantime, you and Ed can shop around for a skin you like, and we can try it out. To be clear, you'll have to pick one designed specifically to work with phpbbforum3. The other ones you mentioned aren't compatible. If you're adventurous and want to try your hand at developing a new skin from scratch, I can support that as well.
Like I mentioned above, we know you're super busy so why not just let Engledogg and I take care of the forum. Just give us the ok/access and we can start a preliminary work. By the way, the skin I mentioned is compatible with phpbb3: http://demo.phpbb3styles.net/AeroBlack. :)

[Ben Stiller Dodgeball voice] Come on Shmax, do it! [/Ben Stiller Dodgeball voice]

--SoS

SoS

#5
July 07, 2011, 08:40:57 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Wajo357"
sounds good... thanks for your great work as usual! My only suggestion, if possible, is to have the 'wiki' post like slickdeals has. This would really give a great advantage over other TF forums. Threads that constantly change information (like a deals thread) would make the wiki post VERY useful.
What 'wiki' post like feature is it? Do you mean the Frontpage Slickdeals feacture or something else?

--SoS

shmax

#6
July 07, 2011, 11:36:54 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "SoS"
That I do know. I was hesitant to say this in my original post, but why not let Engledogg and I tackle the forums? Give us (or me, not sure if he has access to this) to change the skin/style and let us play around with the arrangement of forum sections. Doesn't hurt to try it out, you can always change it back.
Sure, go nuts. Unfortunately at this point installing a new skin would take some doing, as the current skin has a bunch of mods. But once I upgrade phpbb3, I'll do a fresh install, nuke everything out, and we can start fresh.

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Facebook and Twitter are easy, all we have to do is just sign up and advertise ourselves. Mention when there are new gallery updates on a figure or whatever. The news content can use some help, there's no way we can compete with other Transformer sites for news. All we can do is start reporting the news more often to get the rhythm going.
We'd never be able to keep up. I appreciate your enthusiasm for spearheading the effort, and you guys can definitely be in charge of that stuff if you like, but the only way to really do it justice would be to tie into their API's and set up automatic updates. As for news, well, if you submit 'em we'll post 'em. I think the last news story submitted by someone other than Engledogg or myself was a year ago or so from someone who created an account long enough to plug some convention he was planning, and then he vanished forever.

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Like I mentioned above, we know you're super busy so why not just let Engledogg and I take care of the forum. Just give us the ok/access and we can start a preliminary work. By the way, the skin I mentioned is compatible with phpbb3: http://demo.phpbb3styles.net/AeroBlack. :)
Sounds good to me. I'd probably want to modify that skin to lose the cheeseball image-based rounded corners and drop-shadows and replace them with modern mojo (got any CSS skills?), but otherwise I think it's a good fit. Engledogg has otherwise already started adding some new forums, so have fun.

Wajo357

#7
July 07, 2011, 01:30:11 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
SoS,
    the Slickdeals feature I am referring to is the 'Wiki Community Board' seen here: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3087561 or any thread on slickdeals. If this is something we can do easily, it would really give us a major benefit for TF forums. Imagine how easily it would have been to read the Masterpiece Rodimus Issue thread if all of the relevant issues were in 1 wiki post instead of trying to read through 100 pages? - Just 1 of many examples.

I don't think we need to post news on Facebook or Twitter. We need to post our 'niche' - which is right now collecting. We could post any of OUR news, any additions we may add to the database, any major updates to the site, and any variants that are found. I don't know how you guys discover these variants, but whenever one is found, it barely makes it into the mainstream news - but you guys put up a record for it - that sounds twitter/facebook worthy to me (this way people can move their records from one to another based on which variant they have. There is no current feature alerting the users of a figure when a variant is added). If we floor everyone with the same info that they already get from other sources, they won't follow us. We need to keep to our niche until the site develops into more than it is. Then the tweets and facebook posts will reflect that. As a good example, Crave posts about what people are selling on their site - which is currently THEIR niche *cough cough*... I hope I made myself clear.
<a href="http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853</a>

SoS

#8
July 07, 2011, 02:01:11 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Wajo357"
SoS,
    the Slickdeals feature I am referring to is the 'Wiki Community Board' seen here: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3087561 or any thread on slickdeals. If this is something we can do easily, it would really give us a major benefit for TF forums. Imagine how easily it would have been to read the Masterpiece Rodimus Issue thread if all of the relevant issues were in 1 wiki post instead of trying to read through 100 pages? - Just 1 of many examples.
I've never seen that feature before, that's more of a question for Shmax to answer if it's possible to do. I imagine that when he updates the forum, it could be.

Quote
I don't think we need to post news on Facebook or Twitter. We need to post our 'niche' - which is right now collecting. We could post any of OUR news, any additions we may add to the database, any major updates to the site, and any variants that are found. I don't know how you guys discover these variants, but whenever one is found, it barely makes it into the mainstream news - but you guys put up a record for it - that sounds twitter/facebook worthy to me (this way people can move their records from one to another based on which variant they have. There is no current feature alerting the users of a figure when a variant is added). If we floor everyone with the same info that they already get from other sources, they won't follow us. We need to keep to our niche until the site develops into more than it is. Then the tweets and facebook posts will reflect that. As a good example, Crave posts about what people are selling on their site - which is currently THEIR niche *cough cough*... I hope I made myself clear.
Completely agree with you there.

You know what, I just made a shmax twitter account: Shmax_Database. Let's get on that right away.

--SoS

Wajo357

#9
July 07, 2011, 02:29:26 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
following @shmax_database :)
<a href="http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853</a>

shmax

#10
July 07, 2011, 03:00:20 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Wajo357"
I don't think we need to post news on Facebook or Twitter. We need to post our 'niche' - which is right now collecting. We could post any of OUR news, any additions we may add to the database, any major updates to the site, and any variants that are found. I don't know how you guys discover these variants, but whenever one is found, it barely makes it into the mainstream news - but you guys put up a record for it - that sounds twitter/facebook worthy to me
Yep, that's exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned using their API to do automatic updates. New toylines, new releases, variants, all that stuff.

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(this way people can move their records from one to another based on which variant they have. There is no current feature alerting the users of a figure when a variant is added).
Actually we do have that technology, now. Remember the "date bought" alert fun from a few weeks ago? That's a general system that I do indeed intend to use for things like creation of new variants, addition/removal/repurposing of parts to owned sku records, and so on. But I get your point, and it would definitely be Twitterable, as well.

Quote from: "Wajo357"
the Slickdeals feature I am referring to is the 'Wiki Community Board' seen here: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3087561 or any thread on slickdeals
You'll have to dumb it down for me--I looked at the page, and it just looks like another crazy forum to me. What is the killer feature I'm missing?

Quote from: "SoS"
You know what, I just made a shmax twitter account: Shmax_Database. Let's get on that right away.
Good fun, but let's not jump the gun--I haven't done a lick of research on this, but I'll probably need administrative control over the account if I'm going to do API work. Also, is the name something that can be changed?

Thanks, guys, this is fun.

SoS

#11
July 07, 2011, 03:38:10 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "shmax"
Good fun, but let's not jump the gun--I haven't done a lick of research on this, but I'll probably need administrative control over the account if I'm going to do API work. Also, is the name something that can be changed?

Thanks, guys, this is fun.
Didn't you just say you were too busy and that we could handle it? Unless you just meant for us to only work on the forum. What name do you want to change it to? I had already tried "Shmax" (name was already taken) and "Shmax.com" (not allowed). It was either "Shmax(pick-a-number)", so I picked what we have now. As for having administrative control, I'll give up the right to tweet if that's what you want. Just let me know what e-mail address you want to use for the account and I'll relinquish control.

--SoS

shmax

#12
July 07, 2011, 04:05:57 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "SoS"
Quote from: "shmax"
Good fun, but let's not jump the gun--I haven't done a lick of research on this, but I'll probably need administrative control over the account if I'm going to do API work. Also, is the name something that can be changed?

Thanks, guys, this is fun.
Didn't you just say you were too busy and that we could handle it? Unless you just meant for us to only work on the forum. What name do you want to change it to? I had already tried "Shmax" (name was already taken) and "Shmax.com" (not allowed). It was either "Shmax(pick-a-number)", so I picked what we have now. As for having administrative control, I'll give up the right to tweet if that's what you want. Just let me know what e-mail address you want to use for the account and I'll relinquish control.

--SoS
Well, what I said was that I don't know if shmax.com is really ready for a flood of traffic driven from twitter/facebook/mobile, which is why I haven't done much with it. But when I DO tie shmax.com into twitter/facebook, I want to connect to them via their API's, which will allow me to programmatically do updates. For example, if Engledogg creates a new product record, it would also automatically post a blurb to Twitter about it. In ADDITION to that, one could also presumably do manual updates, which is where you would come in.

I just logged into Twitter, and I see that I already have the shmaxcom username. I don't know if that's any more desirable than shmax_database, but it's one option. I also visited "shmax", and he apparently shares the same enthusiasm I have for tweeting as well as the name, as he's only done one tweet. I dunno, maybe I can offer him $100 for the name, or something. What do you think?

Wajo357

#13
July 07, 2011, 04:49:31 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
you can offer him the $100. I don't see why not! If you are willing to pay it.

Anyway, the feature of a wiki post is simple. The thread is exactly the same except for the first post after the initial post. This area is called the Wiki post. Any user can edit this post. The beauty about this idea, like in slickdeals, is that as a topic progresses and information changes or grows, anybody can post the key updates in that single post. So instead of sifting through 100s of pages to catch yourself up with the information, it is all in one post. An example I gave above is with the threads discussing the MP Rodimus issues and fixes. Currently, if I wanted to find out all of the issues and fixes for MP Rodimus I have to sift through all of the 100s of pages. No one has time for that. On the other hand, if we had this wiki post, if anyone had anything important to share they would also put it in this post. Therefore, this one post would have all of the problems and all of the ways to fix it! You can expand this idea to a sales thread, any issues thread, a complaints thread, a news thread etc. All of these threads have information that usually change overtime. Instead of having it hidden within the text of the thread, it is right there in the wiki thread. Browse some of the more discussed threads in slickdeals, you'll see how that post is used and it is BRILLIANT. I've complained many times on TFW that I couldn't follow some threads because the important information was drowned in the noise. This will help that.
<a href="http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853</a>

Wajo357

#14
July 07, 2011, 04:55:11 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
here is another example of a wiki post/board http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread ... it40823885

Someone went in and decided to update the board with relevant information that many people were talking about in the 15 pages of the thread. This way, all newcomers to the thread with the same question are already caught up with the conversation.
<a href="http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/signature.swf?user_id=853</a>

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