I am well aware of how the heero toys have come about but with their popularity and acceptance among collectors, (based on the fact that the major fan sites seem to keep up on them like they do with hastak or justitoys or headrobots) and I am aware that those others are either original molds or supposed to be licensed. But why would things like FansProject be in the DB? They are not even Transformers brand items. Some of those could be considered KO's.
Neither "3rd party" (the kind we're talking about, anyway) nor knockoffs are Transformers brand items...with that said, there's a big difference between "3rd party" and knockoffs.
Like I mentioned before, most of the 3rd party stuff that we cover on here are unique designs. Sure, they're based on Hasbro intellectual property, but at least they're unique designs.
FansProject Code is meant to be Chromedome - we all know that. However, they didn't simply take the existing HasTak G1 Chromedome mold/toy and use it. They created their own new design/mold...one meant to evoke the image of Chromedome, all the while using their own design to get that image across.
3rd party items can also enhance existing HasTak items...something like the City Commander set comes to mind.
Knockoffs, however, blatantly use existing Hasbro molds/designs.
If you think about it, the more like an official Transformers product an unlicensed toy is, the "worse" (in terms of our discussion) it is. That didn't come out quite right, but if you compare Warbot Defender, which evokes the image of G1 Springer through a unique non-HasTak design, to a knockoff
Springer, which is a complete theft of IP, which one is shadier? The KO Springer, obviously.
When discussing knockoffs and 3rd party toys, sometimes the verbiage becomes a little convoluted. Both are forms of IP infringement - with 3rd party toys merely infringing upon it and knockoffs blatantly stealing it...big difference. It gets even worse, there is even a knockoff of the FansProject City Commander!
Are all of the brands listed in 3rd party category licensed or officially endorsed by HasTak or did they just earn respect and acceptance through the community? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. I've just see the names on all of the sites and noticed them in the DB but until recently I had no interest in anything that didn't say Hasbro or Takara on it. They were KO's to me. With the fanfare about heerotoys I was surprised that they weren't in the list.
The third party products we're talking about aren't endorsed or licensed by Hasbro...however, there are plenty of third party products that are - stuff like the G1 reissue keychains or the ROTF transforming watches are licensed third party products:
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/954/cliffjumperhttp://www.shmax.com/database/1689?browse=0Basically, items that Hasbro licensed for production by a company other than Hasbro.
There's not all that much fanfare about heerotoys...he puts out some rather cool products, and people recognize that, but he's nowhere near the level of gushing that a company like TFC Toys receives.
The reason that 3rd party items are on the site was due to fan interest/demand...originally, we had only officially-licensed Transformers items on the site, and that was it. It took some convincing to finally include these items on the site; I wasn't a fan of it, but I could see that's where we were heading.
I should mention (in case it is causing any confusion) that the reason why the unlicensed 3rd party products are found under the Transformers category was that people were clamoring for them and, at the time, we had no alternative but to place them under the Transformers category, as that is how the site was (and still is) set up. You'll also find that Gobots and Battleship(!) Kre-O products are also found under the TF banner...
Once toyline expansion occurs, these 3rd party products (and all non-Transformers toylines) will be moved to their own dedicated category and will not be included under the Transformers umbrella anymore.
If fans determine the value ultimately, then ultimately it is fans/collectors who determine what consists of a qualifying product and it would appear that fans/collectors seem to hold heerotoys in high regard.
No, really, it isn't...not for this site, anyway. Sure, people think his stuff is cool, but that doesn't matter, it's IP theft. There are also other reasons why they're not included - mostly what tripredacus stated earlier, in addition to other things.
I do agree with you guys about the re-issue and other scams. It does suck and I hate it as much as anyone but heerotoys makes no claims, and goes out of the way from what I've seen, to state that they are made. Now some people may be selling theirs as official products either trough ignorance or illicit intent but that isn't heero's fault. Also if they were overstepping their bounds with IP, well we all know Hasbro isn't ever afraid to lawyer up and go after someone.
It doesn't matter if sellers try to pass them off as originals or not - that's irrelevant. Like I said, heero blatantly uses HasTak existing molds as the basis for his products and he makes money from it...as do all the other knockoff-artists. He may say, "Hey, I want everyone to realize that these aren't meant to be sold as official HasTak toys", but he still sells them as his own creations - creations which directly infringe upon/steal HasTak IP.
Let's say I'm able recreate the
Universe Sideswipe mold, create a thousand or so of them in my garage, and I release them in a variety of colors, including two that look a lot like
Deep Cover and
BotCon G2 Breakdown, and I charge $40 each. I can say "I'm not selling these as original Transformers, they're my own creations" until I'm blue in the face, and it would be obvious in the case of Deep Cover since no official Deep Covers were officially released using the Universe Sideswipe mold, but that doesn't absolve me of the fact that I used HasTak's property for my own gain. The mere fact that I used someone else's product and/or idea and passed it off as my own makes me a thief. And, in fact, that's just what someone has done:
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-3rd-party-reviews/417677-knockoff-ko-deep-cover-kotoys-com.htmlhttp://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/buyer-beware-ko-botcon-breakdown-punch-and-more/23436/In many ways, these guys are no different than heero.
And I picked up a glowing optimus and would like to add it to my collection. Sure I can just DL my collection and add it manually for my own personal wants but I'll be honest, that's the biggest reason I brought it up.
Thanks again for your input.
Understood...but knockoffs, which includes heero's items, are a much different story than 3rd party items. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, perhaps one day we'll have some sort of category to cover knockoffs...maybe not, I have no idea. In addition, for reasons tripredacus mentioned in his post, logistically, there's just too much to consider to make it worthwhile to cover them in depth. And like I said before, we can't pick and choose which ones we cover...we either cover all of them, or none of them. Just like the lowliest Happy Meal toy counts as an official toy just as much as Fortress Maximus does, the dollar store KO that looks like it is made out of candle wax would count as a KO as much as the highest quality G1 Dinobot KO.
Like you, I also own a few of heero's toys - the jet recolors. Glow-in-dark ones, G2 Ramjet, G2 Starscream, etc. I picked them up cheap a few years back, and while they are cool little toys, I realize what they are and understand why they're not covered on the site.
MIKE
engledogg
