My topic of musings and ideas

[engledogg]

Ha, I totally spaced on reading the date there on your link...my bad.

Yeah, I knew about the Overbite/Jawbreaker comics mix-up by Furman, but as far as I know, there was no release of Overbite called "Jawbreaker" on his packaging.

MIKE
engledogg

[Tripredacus]

Yeah it seems that way.

Also, in your signature, it says you own 46/45 Heroes of Cybertron toys?  :shock:

This entry for US Race Track Patrol has the incorrect photo for the packaging.
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/13 ... ack_patrol

Added accessories for Skywarp Numeral Candle. I am going to guess that the actual Candle mold is unique from the Optimus Prime version. However, the Numeral sheet *may* be the same as the one for Optimus Prime, but not sure about the colors. I can see the sheet inside the package, but since mine is MOC I cannot see exactly what they look like. I took a photo of this (and a couple other things) so we will see how they turn out.

What do you think about this one?
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/4218/snapper

I have, what could be this entry but partly doesn't match up For example, the one I have says the name is Snapper/Snap and has a whole slew of languages on it. It does say Kenner on the front but it also has the GiG logo on the back. And to make matters worse, there is a price tag on it for £5.99... I see Engledogg submitted, so you have this carded? Want to compare notes?

I've just been editing this throughout the day btw. Been looking at stuff for quite a bit. Let's talk about Swerve:
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/142/swerve
The one I have has a "Space Camp" sticker on it. Should I add a new entry for this toy but with this sticker?

Uh oh I found a big problem. Feel free to research this if you want to prove if I am correct or not (obviously I am likely incorrect on the Jawbreaker issue) ... It appears the European Beast Wars Biocombat all have the wrong years. For example, Claw Jaw was released in 1997, not 1998. You can confirm if you want. I originally had these items listed on my old site as the same years you do but I changed it. There was some research done about these international releases and it was determined what was what. While the "European" toys are Biocombat, and the Tri-Logo BW toys were primarily found in Canada. Which, btw I can't find ANY Tri-Logo BW toys, since you do not have them under either Canada or Europe... I will try to find this information.

OK ok I found it on Tformers (weird) and breaks down as such:
Biocombat is from Italy (yes they have Kenner on the front AND been sold in the UK BUT have GiG logos on the back)
Ani-Mutants is from France
Tri-Logo is from Canada
http://forums.tformers.com/talk/index.p ... mbat&st=10

Oh just found something silly. The ability to choose that you have a blind-packed toy MISB. How could you even know? lol. Is it possible to set an exception that you couldn't possibly have an SCF Clear Chromedome MISB... but you COULD have the box itself MISB without knowing what is in it... hmm...

[engledogg]

What do you think about this one?
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/4218/snapper

I have, what could be this entry but partly doesn't match up For example, the one I have says the name is Snapper/Snap and has a whole slew of languages on it. It does say Kenner on the front but it also has the GiG logo on the back. And to make matters worse, there is a price tag on it for £5.99... I see Engledogg submitted, so you have this carded? Want to compare notes?

I submitted the record but I don't own the package in question.

I've just been editing this throughout the day btw. Been looking at stuff for quite a bit. Let's talk about Swerve:
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/142/swerve
The one I have has a "Space Camp" sticker on it. Should I add a new entry for this toy but with this sticker?

From what I gather, the Space Camp stickers were likely put on at actual stores by Hasbro reps or people working on behalf of Hasbro ...so I'm not quite sure how to handle them at the moment.

Uh oh I found a big problem. Feel free to research this if you want to prove if I am correct or not (obviously I am likely incorrect on the Jawbreaker issue) ... It appears the European Beast Wars Biocombat all have the wrong years. For example, Claw Jaw was released in 1997, not 1998. You can confirm if you want. I originally had these items listed on my old site as the same years you do but I changed it. There was some research done about these international releases and it was determined what was what. While the "European" toys are Biocombat, and the Tri-Logo BW toys were primarily found in Canada. Which, btw I can't find ANY Tri-Logo BW toys, since you do not have them under either Canada or Europe... I will try to find this information.

OK ok I found it on Tformers (weird) and breaks down as such:
Biocombat is from Italy (yes they have Kenner on the front AND been sold in the UK BUT have GiG logos on the back)
Ani-Mutants is from France
Tri-Logo is from Canada
http://forums.tformers.com/talk/index.p ... mbat&st=10

Good catch...I'll fix those countries of release up...in r. jung's big ol' TF list I have from years ago, that's how the years were presented.

1997 - Transformers Year 14
--EUROPEAN AUTOBOTS--
The Maximals Optimus Primal (bat and gorilla), Rattrap, Razorbeast, Dinobot,
Polar Claw, Cheetor, Rhinox, Wolfang, and Armordillo were released in Europe
(see 1996 entries).  Some parts of Europe sell the toys under the name "Beast
Wars Biocombat Transformers," while other ares use "Beast Wars Ani Mutants."

--EUROPEAN DECEPTICONS--
The Predacons Megatron (crocodile and T-Rex) Terrorsaur, Iguanus, Tarantulas,
Scorponok, Waspinator, Inferno, Insecticon, and Snapper were released in
Europe (see 1996 entries).  Some parts of Europe sell the toys under the name
"Beast Wars Biocombat Transformers," while other ares use "Beast Wars Ani
Mutants."  In some parts of Europe, "Predacons" were called "Predators."

Do we know that this info isn't correct?  For a while there during BW, it seemed that Europe was a year behind on some releases...

Oh just found something silly. The ability to choose that you have a blind-packed toy MISB. How could you even know? lol. Is it possible to set an exception that you couldn't possibly have an SCF Clear Chromedome MISB... but you COULD have the box itself MISB without knowing what is in it... hmm...

That's something we'll just have to live with as a majority of the packages out there aren't blind-packed and the system isn't really set up to treat those semi-rare individual instances as exceptions.

MIKE
engledogg

[Tripredacus]

Hmm for now I think the years are fine. I can't remember why I changed from the "year behind" thing myself. That still sticks in my mind as being correct.

[engledogg]

You know, looking at the actual packages, the dates do correspond with the dates of the U.S. releases (1996 for Rattrap, 1997 for Claw Jaw, etc.)...and it's sorta hard to believe that Europe actually went an entire year (1996) without any Transformers products released.  Perhaps Jung's page was wrong...for now, I'm gonna put the dates I see on the packages.  We can always change them back if need be. :-)

MIKE
engledogg

[Tripredacus]

I need to see what I can do about my photos that were rejected. I should definately get some sort of white background, but my camera might not be good enough for proper photos.  :cry:

But I will see about this weekend!

[shmax]

I should definately get some sort of white background

Sounds good, but the white background is only the beginning. You'll need a light tent (or light box), some fancy lighting, and some minor knowledge of photo editing. Please see our photo guidelines page for a more complete description of what is expected, a tutorial, and tons of sample pictures. Looking forward to your contributions... good luck!

[Tripredacus]

I bought some stuff to start making a light tent. I worked on it a little today but I got bored. Even if I finished it today I don't have lights yet so its no big deal. Too bad I spent most of my afternoon running around shopping.

I saw another thread from a while back from Erik about Decoys. How goes the ideas with these now? They were available in three methods (two which are not accounted for):

1. On card (visible)
2. Vending Machine (visible)

But could you say that Vending Machine would count as blind packed? So either two visible methods, or the two blind packed methods. Of course the other blind packed method would be the Gestalt sets! Oops doesn't look like you have those in the database yet!

Ugg another picture I can't find. I'm going to have to boot up that other PC to see what it has.

Neither is the Canadian G1 TFs that came with Decoys too. Here is an example. (Oh btw I will post pictures here that obviously can't go in the database)



OK here's another question. I have the Armada Street Minicon team... um... actually its not. It may be a one of a kind item, but it might not. How can I explain it. Ok I took a picture (its not a good one but should get the point across:



Compare that to this:
http://www.shmax.com/product_details/51 ... ded_bubble

 :mrgreen:

Aaand (for now) you need to add a new country! Portugal! Yes the Classic UK Throttlebots (at least) were released in Portugal. They are the exact same packaging except that there is a sticker (or in my case two) on the back. Check this one out:



back (I had to use the scanner for this):


Pretty neat huh?

[shmax]

But could you say that Vending Machine would count as blind packed? So either two visible methods, or the two blind packed methods. Of course the other blind packed method would be the Gestalt sets! Oops doesn't look like you have those in the database yet!

Ugh, blind-packs. It's a problem we simply haven't solved, yet, along with random insertions (an arbitrary decoy included with a larger figure). I just don't know how to handle it. I can imagine how random insertions would work in the collection--there could be the usual little checkbox, and then a drop-down where you can choose the specific decoy you own from the list--but how would we encode that one-of-many concept into the database, the product details page, and the record modification UI?

The blind-packing is even worse. We would have to boil down all the blind-packed skus for a toyline category down into a single record, and again, somehow link all the parts that COULD be included, while at the same time indicating that only one of them IS included.

I've been cooking up a new idea for a good year and a half now that may be able to handle some of these scenarios--it will be a drag and drop interface that lets you combine parts and skus into contextual groups, and I could see having a "one of" node that you could drag into the tree, and then populate with all the appropriate parts. It's a long way off, though, so in the meantime, all I can do is tell you to hang in there...

I have the Armada Street Minicon team

I don't understand--it looks like the Destruction Team in the Race Team packaging. Either a packaging malfunction at the factory, or someone doing a return at Target and getting fancy with the 'ol switcheroo. Either way, I don't know if we really need to track it in the database.

Aaand (for now) you need to add a new country! Portugal! Yes the Classic UK Throttlebots (at least) were released in Portugal. They are the exact same packaging except that there is a sticker (or in my case two) on the back. Check this one out:

Interesting! However, since this is apparently just the UK issue with a sticker applied, it wouldn't really be appropriate to create a whole new record for it--we can simply add "Portugal" to the "Release Info" list, and add a release comment noting that a sticker was applied. Feel free to do this yourself--you should see Portugal in the country drop-down.

[Tripredacus]

I have an idea for these blind pack items, which include the following:

- gapashon (sic)
- kabaya
- decoys
- mini spies
- SCF

Are people really going to go Decoy or Minispy crazy? Alas, you may have solved this problem with your last post! Is it enough to say that I can have a mispackaged minicon team that doesn't need to be tracked on Shmax, AND that you can just have the SKU for Special Teams with Decoy on card? Do we need to list every variation of Mini-Spies or Decoys that came with each item? Not really. Here's how to handle Mini-spies and Decoys:

Currently we have (can I say we? I feel like I'm helping out... I can stop if that sounds weird) Special Teams as both with and without Decoy packaging. That is the end of it. Add all Decoys into the database as loose figures only. List them as the bagged type (or capsule if it is available). Make a note on each Decoy description that they are also included with select 1986 toys (or don't).

Basically, keep them as separate SKUs altogether. Am I making sense?

Then you can apply this logic to any other blind packed items, I'll take SCF for example.

Add each of the SCF Act boxes with the only option of MISB.
Add each of the SCF figures as the bagged type. Since you can have an SCF toy still sealed in bag, yet be out of its box. Then add the Act box as an accessory.

In other news, I turned on my other PC to find it devoid of TF images. This isn't good. I found some backup CDs but they aren't looking to promising. It would sure suck if I lost all those images, but we'll see how it goes. I'm doing a copy right now.

[engledogg]

Are people really going to go Decoy or Minispy crazy?

I will.  I love the things.  I never had any decoys as a kid and only semi-recently (within the last five years) got into them.

Mini-Spies are something I've always collected and I'm still actively tracking them down.  The Wiki is actually wrong about there being 24 possible variants - there are actually 48.

4 different mold types x 3 different colors x 2 different factions x 2 spoke types (thick vs. thin) = 48 potential Mini-Spies.

So, yeah...haha.

MIKE
engledogg

[Tripredacus]

Another day of going through TFs... got another question.

I noticed here:
http://www.shmax.com/results/541?browse ... =soundwave

There are two different types of Soundwave fists. The pictures of each type do show the different in the fists, which is fine.
The problem is that I have one that isn't listed! It is WITH rubsign WITH hollow fists. I checked both and they are hollow on both arms. Another oddity, the NO rubsign WITH hollow fists has the battery cover being blank:
http://www.shmax.com/part_details/5224/battery_cover

Mine isn't blank. Actually I just noticed that all three entries have the same picture for the battery cover. So not knowing if I have an oddity or not, here is my info

- Rubsign on tape door
- both fists "hollow"
- battery cover has "Japanese characters" "Copyright" TAKARA CO., LTD. '74, '83 JAPAN
- weapon storage area has same markings as battery cover, but thicker letters.

Any ideas?

[engledogg]

Yep, there is a hollow-fist rubsign Soundwave (I have one myself, just looking through my box of Soundwaves).  I'll create that record ASAP, but I am going to hold off on filling it in for now.

At the time of creating the records, we weren't super concerned with stampings (and even now, it's sorta "back-burner" as I can only imagine the public outcry if we listed every stamping variant that every Transformer could have possibly had over the years).  A Seaspray is a Seaspray is a Seaspray no matter if it was made in Macau or Japan, unless it had some major mold change from one country of production to the other. But, getting back, as far as the Soundwaves and his battery covers go, courtesy of Fred's Variations Page:

Type 1: Takara-only (inside), solid fists
Type 1a: Takara-only (on battery cover), solid fists
Type 2: Takara-only with dates(inside), hollow fists
Type 3: Hasbro-Tak with dates(inside), hollow fists

So...yours would likely be a Type 2...but, as I understand it, that doesn't necessarily mean it will have a cover with stamping on it.  It's possible that it might, but it also might come with a blank cover.  You could have a hollow-fist, rubsign Soundwave with stamping on HIM and HIS DOOR or a hollow-fist, rubsign Soundwave with stamping only on HIM and nothing on his door.

Looking at my Soundwaves, I just ran across a blank cover, but it's different than the standard blank cover.  This one actually has a squarish area that looks to be "blocked out".  Neat.

So, as you can see, lots of "fun" can be had trying to put Soundwave's variants together.

Give me a bit more time to research it and maybe I'll come up with more info.  I do agree that the stamped vs. non-stamped battery cover piece should probably warrant a new part record...

And of course, variants as a whole are a "work in process".  To me, the more accurate we are, the better the site is, so I'm all for finding "new" legit variants.

MIKE
engledogg

[Tripredacus]

I am thinking that maybe all these mold variants may be overwhelming to users. For me It just means I need to go look at something

But what if, at some point in the future, you were to combine all the variants as 1 item, as far as counting goes. And them a sub-category of that item with the different variants.

What is it that the users here want, do they want to be overwhelmed with variations or do most of them want a simple checklist. It would be interesting to find out for sure.

Another notice here:
The picture of the robot and vehicle mode for Megatron:
http://www.shmax.com/part_details/2321/megatron
Appears to be a render or custom. It does not match the carded pictures or the one I have loose.

[engledogg]

I am thinking that maybe all these mold variants may be overwhelming to users. For me It just means I need to go look at something  

But what if, at some point in the future, you were to combine all the variants as 1 item, as far as counting goes. And them a sub-category of that item with the different variants.

What is it that the users here want, do they want to be overwhelmed with variations or do most of them want a simple checklist. It would be interesting to find out for sure.

At the moment, we only truly consider significant packaging and figure variants (i.e. mold change, rubsign vs. nonrubsign, etc.)...ignoring the multiple stampings and such, so it shouldn't be too overwhelming for anyone.  Sometimes it does seem like people are a tad too wrapped up in rank and completion percentage.  Our goal is to make this the most complete Transformers information site that we can.  And, if that's too much for the average user...I'm not sure what to tell ya.  

Another notice here:
The picture of the robot and vehicle mode for Megatron:
http://www.shmax.com/part_details/2321/megatron
Appears to be a render or custom. It does not match the carded pictures or the one I have loose.

That's just an early stock photo from Hasbro.  If you hover over the smaller images, it'll tell you whose pic it is.  As always, any pic from Hasbro is up for replacement with a user-submitted photo.

MIKE
engledogg