new visual way to display collection

Started by Chaotic Descent, November 30, 2008, 05:49:57 AM

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Chaotic Descent

November 30, 2008, 05:49:57 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Sorry. Getting impatient. After a few days with my post in general, I made another one here.

Many years ago, I manually edited HTML tables to keep track of my collection. I'd like one day to be able to display my collection from this website in the same way, but I need to learn some PHP and SQL I guess, since I can't really ask such a big job from whoever's capable of doing so here. (I don't know if it's anyone else besides shmax)

The purpose of this oh-so-pretty table is to give you an overall look at the current state of your ENTIRE collection all at once, in a visual manner, so you can see just how far you've gone, and just how far you have to go. Not just with numerical results, or a single bar graph for all TFs. Many people have different ways of taking in information, and there is no universal "best way" for everyone. Some think best in words, pictures, or numbers.

I have a lot of work to do, not just on learning how to implement dynamic web content in this manner, but also in how to code what previously was manually laid out, to be automatically laid out. There's lots of potential to make it even fancier, with percentage bar graphs in the gimmick section, and moving sections around. (although that would either require a GUI, or perhaps some scripting. I wonder if it would be possible to allow users to script the public data they're given access to. I've heard there are permissions and restrictions you can set when interacting with (My)SQL, so I would thing that theoretically it is.)

So here's what it looks like:

elaborate color codes: (also featuring a new layout for Armada, which offered the challenge of how to display 3 factions, with 'Bot & 'Con products including members from the 3rd faction) http://www.chaoticdescent.site90.com/tf ... 20egX.html
I'll probably re-do the color codes. I think ideally, every individual would want to customize their own color codes rather than having to use someone else's, which may not fit their needs.

One of the things I displayed was the series and sublines over the years.
http://www.chaoticdescent.site90.com/tf ... rview.html

the poor pathetic remains of my collection tabulation after I failed to backup my files and my HD crashed (also lacking color codes) : http://www.chaoticdescent.site90.com/tf-collection.html

shmax

#1
November 30, 2008, 06:54:45 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Sorry for not replying either--I wasn't sure if your post was directed at me, or meant for general discussion. I guess I still don't really understand the main thrust of your point--are you asking me to implement your tables, or asking for advice on how to do it on your own site?

Of course I'm always interested in hearing about new ideas, particularly when it comes to the collection system. I should mention that the collection system has been completely redesigned, with new UI, new features, and a whole slew of new data fields you can enter in. The new collection pages have statistics for what percentages of the factions you own, MISB vs. loose, etc. The mods and I have decided not to launch the new system until the parts database is more fleshed-out, but it should be appearing soon.

Your idea for the tables are interesting, but I have to confess that I really don't understand them--it's not clear to me what all the rows of numbers mean, nor what you mean by having a scale from "need" to "have" (surely "have" is a boolean value?). I also note that they seem to be centered around toylines (like Armada) that are sort of discrete and can be easily partitioned into a few factions. That might work for something like Armada, but anything I implement needs to be robust enough to work for any scrappy toyline or node in the category tree, with any level of complexity (consider something like "Titanium", with all its factions, or the Animorphs, which have none).

But there are infinite types of tables and graphs that can be generated that would foot the bill, and it's something I've been thinking about off and on. One thing I would like to do is have a page that lists rows for every collector, with statistics that can be sorted on any column (ie. #autobots, mold completion, # MIB, #mini-cons, etc). So the idea of a "Top Collectors" list would be enriched a bit, and one could navigate through the database categories, looking for sorts, scenarios and categories where their collection happens to be #1. But something like that will have to wait until after I launch the new system.

You've mentioned you'd like to be able to download your collection--that's fairly reasonable. It would be pretty easy to generate a csv or some other format that could be imported into your favorite spreadsheet program. Whether or not you would then be able to easily import, process, or otherwise use that data in your own schemes is up to you, but I can't see the wisdom in ever allowing users to compose and execute  MySQL queries directly on the database. A more likely scenario would involve me exposing a simple REST-based API to the users, in which you could make requests and I would return XML, which you could use to do whatever you want. But that's going to be way down the line. A lot of this depends on the site actually taking off--so far we only get a few visitors a day, and it's hard to get motivated to engineer these huge features when the audience for them is so small (and yes, I'm the site's sole designer/engineer).

You had some questions about HTML in your other post--I won't go into much detail now, but you shouldn't really be worrying about the limitations of tables at this point. Just decide what you want to do, and know that between html, CSS, and javascript, there's always a way to accomplish what you have in mind.

I think you also mentioned something about being frustrated that you couldn't find any decent information on Tripredacus Agent. Not to ask stupid questions, but did you do a search on this site?

http://www.shmax.com/Package_Details/76 ... acus_Agent

Well, I guess that's all for now. Good luck to you with your site!

Max

Quote from: "Chaotic Descent"
Sorry. Getting impatient. After a few days with my post in general, I made another one here.

Many years ago, I manually edited HTML tables to keep track of my collection. I'd like one day to be able to display my collection from this website in the same way, but I need to learn some PHP and SQL I guess, since I can't really ask such a big job from whoever's capable of doing so here. (I don't know if it's anyone else besides shmax)

The purpose of this oh-so-pretty table is to give you an overall look at the current state of your ENTIRE collection all at once, in a visual manner, so you can see just how far you've gone, and just how far you have to go. Not just with numerical results, or a single bar graph for all TFs. Many people have different ways of taking in information, and there is no universal "best way" for everyone. Some think best in words, pictures, or numbers.

I have a lot of work to do, not just on learning how to implement dynamic web content in this manner, but also in how to code what previously was manually laid out, to be automatically laid out. There's lots of potential to make it even fancier, with percentage bar graphs in the gimmick section, and moving sections around. (although that would either require a GUI, or perhaps some scripting. I wonder if it would be possible to allow users to script the public data they're given access to. I've heard there are permissions and restrictions you can set when interacting with (My)SQL, so I would thing that theoretically it is.)

So here's what it looks like:

elaborate color codes: (also featuring a new layout for Armada, which offered the challenge of how to display 3 factions, with 'Bot & 'Con products including members from the 3rd faction) http://www.chaoticdescent.site90.com/tf ... 20egX.html
I'll probably re-do the color codes. I think ideally, every individual would want to customize their own color codes rather than having to use someone else's, which may not fit their needs.

One of the things I displayed was the series and sublines over the years.
http://www.chaoticdescent.site90.com/tf ... rview.html

the poor pathetic remains of my collection tabulation after I failed to backup my files and my HD crashed (also lacking color codes) : http://www.chaoticdescent.site90.com/tf-collection.html

Chaotic Descent

#2
November 30, 2008, 12:14:55 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "shmax"
Sorry for not replying either--I wasn't sure if your post was directed at me, or meant for general discussion. I guess I still don't really understand the main thrust of your point--are you asking me to implement your tables, or asking for advice on how to do it on your own site?
I wasn't sure. If it requires a lot of work, I'll try to do it myself if it's not beyond my means of learning how. I was just sort of pitching the idea.

Quote
Of course I'm always interested in hearing about new ideas, particularly when it comes to the collection system. I should mention that the collection system has been completely redesigned, with new UI, new features, and a whole slew of new data fields you can enter in. The new collection pages have statistics for what percentages of the factions you own, MISB vs. loose, etc. The mods and I have decided not to launch the new system until the parts database is more fleshed-out, but it should be appearing soon.
Yup, I heard. Looking forward to it.

Quote
Your idea for the tables are interesting, but I have to confess that I really don't understand them--it's not clear to me what all the rows of numbers mean,
Oh, sorry. In the other thread I explained those numbers. They're just for "debugging". I was working out layout based on width percentage and another arbitrary unit.

Quote
nor what you mean by having a scale from "need" to "have" (surely "have" is a boolean value?).
The scale of "need" to "have" is... oh... that really is showing it's age. I guess it really should be "don't have" to "have", but "need" is shorter, so maybe that's why I used that confusing label.
And "don't have" to "have" isn't necessarily boolean either, because sometimes you get incomplete figures, or you get 1 figure when you need 2 or 3. Or you want one boxed and one loose. Or whatever.

Quote
I also note that they seem to be centered around toylines (like Armada) that are sort of discrete and can be easily partitioned into a few factions. That might work for something like Armada, but anything I implement needs to be robust enough to work for any scrappy toyline or node in the category tree, with any level of complexity (consider something like "Titanium", with all its factions, or the Animorphs, which have none).
Yes. This is specifically for Transformers. Well, I would like it to be dynamically laid out instead of manual. What it really boils down to is "good-guy faction" and "bad-guy faction". I'm pretty sure Animorphs have two factions. (although I think there's only one bad-guy toy, if I recall...) I mean, this system wouldn't have worked for lines like Armada if it had been created before Armada, so of course new things pop up all the time.

Quote
But there are infinite types of tables and graphs that can be generated that would foot the bill, and it's something I've been thinking about off and on. One thing I would like to do is have a page that lists rows for every collector, with statistics that can be sorted on any column (ie. #autobots, mold completion, # MIB, #mini-cons, etc). So the idea of a "Top Collectors" list would be enriched a bit, and one could navigate through the database categories, looking for sorts, scenarios and categories where their collection happens to be #1. But something like that will have to wait until after I launch the new system.

You've mentioned you'd like to be able to download your collection--that's fairly reasonable. It would be pretty easy to generate a csv or some other format that could be imported into your favorite spreadsheet program. Whether or not you would then be able to easily import, process, or otherwise use that data in your own schemes is up to you, but I can't see the wisdom in ever allowing users to compose and execute  MySQL queries directly on the database. A more likely scenario would involve me exposing a simple REST-based API to the users, in which you could make requests and I would return XML, which you could use to do whatever you want. But that's going to be way down the line. A lot of this depends on the site actually taking off--so far we only get a few visitors a day, and it's hard to get motivated to engineer these huge features when the audience for them is so small (and yes, I'm the site's sole designer/engineer).
I don't know what a lot of that stuff is, but can CSV or XML be laid out just as easily as PHP+MySQL? I mean can PHP take XML the same as MySQL?

Quote
You had some questions about HTML in your other post--I won't go into much detail now, but you shouldn't really be worrying about the limitations of tables at this point. Just decide what you want to do, and know that between html, CSS, and javascript, there's always a way to accomplish what you have in mind.

I think you also mentioned something about being frustrated that you couldn't find any decent information on Tripredacus Agent. Not to ask stupid questions, but did you do a search on this site?

http://www.shmax.com/Package_Details/76 ... acus_Agent

Well, I guess that's all for now. Good luck to you with your site!

Max
I don't have a site. I just put this up right now so I could show it here. I had these pages up online once, long ago. It served no public purpose. I did sort of want to have my collection be both in visual form for myself, as well as an easy list for people looking to buy/sell with me.

shmax

#3
November 30, 2008, 08:13:13 PM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "Chaotic Descent"
I wasn't sure. If it requires a lot of work, I'll try to do it myself if it's not beyond my means of learning how. I was just sort of pitching the idea.
Ah. Well, doing it yourself on your own site is certainly an option, though you would need me to either supply you with raw data, or you would need to build up your own database of toys as well (which takes several years). Or, you can wait for the new collection system on this site to go live, and continue to submit suggestions and see how things develop.
Quote
I don't know what a lot of that stuff is, but can CSV or XML be laid out just as easily as PHP+MySQL? I mean can PHP take XML the same as MySQL?
Well, you're a PHP man, right? The idea is that somewhere in your code, on your site, you decide that you want to dynamically generate one of your tables. But you need the collection data from my site. So, in your code, you would dynamically compose an http request (following whatever api syntax I provide), for example:
http://www.shmax.com/collection_data?id=2&cat=228

You would then hit my server with the request (by using some REST-style class or interface, such as snoopy ). On my end, I process the request, and put the results in the form of some easily consumable format, such as XML, or JSON. There are 3rd-party functions available in PHP for converting either kind of format directly into arrays or objects, and then you're free to format and display the data in any format you like (tables, graphs, etc). If you want to get started right away, here's some information about your collection in XML format:
http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/96/sigxml.php (click on the link, then view the page source--that's XML).

I'll also mention as an aside that if what you're doing with the tables is meant to be a poor man's bar graph, then you might be better off looking at some actual charting software. I use ChartDirector here on the site. It can do anything in the world, it's free, and the author has provided wrappers for every programming language under the sun.  

Quote
It served no public purpose. I did sort of want to have my collection be both in visual form for myself, as well as an easy list for people looking to buy/sell with me.
Well, you might want to wait until you see the new collection system. Users will be able to browse your collection the same way they can browse the database, and they'll be able to see which are loose or complete, which parts are missing, and so on. Down the road I'll probably add some buy/sell functionality as well as whatever else seems cool. Hang in there!

Max

Chaotic Descent

#4
December 01, 2008, 10:07:40 AM Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by Guest
Quote from: "shmax"
Quote from: "Chaotic Descent"
I wasn't sure. If it requires a lot of work, I'll try to do it myself if it's not beyond my means of learning how. I was just sort of pitching the idea.
Ah. Well, doing it yourself on your own site is certainly an option, though you would need me to either supply you with raw data, or you would need to build up your own database of toys as well (which takes several years). Or, you can wait for the new collection system on this site to go live, and continue to submit suggestions and see how things develop.
I wouldn't need such a complicated database specifically for displaying them like this, but I laugh at the people saying "oh, I just update my own spreadsheet!"
I wasn't really intending to set up a website... although if it worked well enough (speed, bandwidth) I'd certainly spare you from taking the bandwidth hit of every person who looks at my collection. and include a "powered by shmax" link.

Quote
Quote
I don't know what a lot of that stuff is, but can CSV or XML be laid out just as easily as PHP+MySQL? I mean can PHP take XML the same as MySQL?
Well, you're a PHP man, right? The idea is that somewhere in your code, on your site, you decide that you want to dynamically generate one of your tables. But you need the collection data from my site. So, in your code, you would dynamically compose an http request (following whatever api syntax I provide), for example:
http://www.shmax.com/collection_data?id=2&cat=228

You would then hit my server with the request (by using some REST-style class or interface, such as snoopy ). On my end, I process the request, and put the results in the form of some easily consumable format, such as XML, or JSON. There are 3rd-party functions available in PHP for converting either kind of format directly into arrays or objects, and then you're free to format and display the data in any format you like (tables, graphs, etc). If you want to get started right away, here's some information about your collection in XML format:
http://www.shmax.com/img/sigs/96/sigxml.php (click on the link, then view the page source--that's XML).

I'll also mention as an aside that if what you're doing with the tables is meant to be a poor man's bar graph, then you might be better off looking at some actual charting software. I use ChartDirector here on the site. It can do anything in the world, it's free, and the author has provided wrappers for every programming language under the sun.  
I'm not actually "a PHP man". It's just that I've been meaning to "learn web databases" for years and was hoping this would be a good opportunity. I haven't learned PHP. (although I gather the basics are pretty similar to everything else that looks like C)

I'll look at ChartDirector, but I haven't touched a compiler in years. Wait... you use it on the site? What runs it? I see PHP listed. Oh boy. I think I'd like to avoid using a C++ compiler. I'm in Ubuntu Linux.
Thanks.

Quote
Quote
It served no public purpose. I did sort of want to have my collection be both in visual form for myself, as well as an easy list for people looking to buy/sell with me.
Well, you might want to wait until you see the new collection system. Users will be able to browse your collection the same way they can browse the database, and they'll be able to see which are loose or complete, which parts are missing, and so on. Down the road I'll probably add some buy/sell functionality as well as whatever else seems cool. Hang in there!
Yes, but it still won't display my collection like this, will it? :) I "sit and wait" all the time. Not that I'm good at getting things done, but I was hoping I'd be able to have something to do that I have some motivation to do that might actually be possible to accomplish. (although it might not... I'm not sure how easy it's going to be for me to learn PHP and MySQL... or if I even need MySQL at this point. although I should learn it... I guess. It might be useful in the future?)

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